(USASOC) Commissioned and warrant officers who enter flight training starting in October will incur a 10-year service obligation once they become rated Army aviator s, according to guidance. I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. 10 is a big commitment either way. By policy, the Army must review the AvB program quarterly to determine the program's effectiveness. Though I agree that there is a retention problem, especially within aviation, I'm not sure the Army is focused on the right issue here. The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. army aviation 10 year adso. The, exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. I don't know how common my situation is, but I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who barely flew, while there are others flying until they drop. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? It seems the 10 year ADSO is now official. Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. As a Guard or, There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. Welcome back, fellow aviators! It must continue to remove burdens that plague the warrant officer community, such as non-pilot-related duties and frequent deployments to combat training centers. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. If you quit during flight school you are still obligated to fulfill the ADSO and reassigned to the needs of the Army. I've been in the Army for a long time, and it's never been worse than now. The report included a figure showing that the Army faced a shortfall of 330 warrant officerswho comprise 70 percent of the Armys pilot ranks. Not saying I would want the out but, contractually wouldnt there be something to be said for Breach of contract here? Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. For anyone interested in becoming a warrant officer, individuals should contact a warrant officer recruiter or visit the Armys Warrant Officer Recruiting website. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Hopefully with the new 10 year ADSO aviation will assess more senior NCOs. F-22 crew chief: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe. The army has never been good at personnel management. Final thoughts the social aspect of the Army has never been worse. The OPTEMPO is higher now than it was at the height of GWOT. Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. Age should be liftedI'm in my mid fifties and still fly helicopters (civilian market) for a living. Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. You can review the rules in AR 600-3 if memory serves. Must be a volunteer just like airborne. Its shocking that the Army doesnt have any institutional memory about what causes pilot shortage, which are primarily two broad topics: quality of life in the Army, and economic opportunities outside the Army. The report focused on the unmet demand for pilots in the commercial aviation sector that has attracted military pilots. Serving on Active Duty has plenty of advantages, and even offers some highly-desirable opportunities that you cant get anywhere else. Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. There's an easy answer to this the oblivious, tone-deaf culture of "readiness" that GEN Milley fostered while serving as the CSA. ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. That's the Army's ace in the hole. Prospective warrant officers can see that the Army is having trouble retaining pilots, and they can also see that increasing the service obligation by four years works against their best interests. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. Deployments are great flying, but terrible on a family. His administration's definition of readiness was turning maximum amount of red chicklets on spreadsheets to green, sending people over and over to the field and CTCs without any break, and endless rotations to Korea and Europe. You can post now and register later. One problem with pilots is that we don't age well (I'm not a military aviator, just a private pilot) so there would be an issue of reaching a physical condition expiration date at some point. Weve seen, If youre headed to pilot training, you absolutely must read our 3-part series on Winning UPT. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. For example, its the only service that allows people to go into flight training with only a high school degree. I don't know too many that would care to be told to mop the floor of the pilot's office, fill the refrigerator, go help wash the aircraft the things that junior warrants typically do when they are new to a unit out of flight school. To create a mission-ready helicopter pilot, the Army invests between six hundred thousand and one million dollars during approximately one year of flight training. Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. But at what cost? People are tired. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. Also if you have any time in the army at all, youll probably stay until 20 at that point. I think it would be a great idea to leverage senior NCOs to enter pilot training with a waiver. Were you part of the 6 year or 10 year ADSO group? I remember when they tried to get aviators out of the "sack" flight suit and into Nomex BDUs to make them more soldierly. 6 years is a masters degree, 10 years is 2 years longer than a PH. Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. I was under the impression that the bonus went away when they upped the 10+ year flight pay. Sounds great! I think that mindser still exists. In a worst-case scenario, hes looking at: Wow, thats a lot of moving and time away from home! Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. Flying helicopters looks pretty dope though. Next, hed go to his first assignment. The Army increased monthly pilot pay from a maximum of $850 per month to $1000 per month, offered $35,000 annual bonuses to qualified warrant officers who extend for three years, and reduced combined training center rotations to two per twelve-month period for each combat aviation brigade. D. Your email address will not be published. Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Not difficult for the Army in finding 400 additional career minded E-3 to E-7 for the WOFT program if need be. That 10 year obligation doesn't start until you finish flight school. Before people get started on the, this is the way the Army goes and all that, I know. F-35s in feature image: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky. What if you transfer from being an officer with 8 years of service (including enlisted time) to being warrant aviation? (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. NO WOFT POSTS. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. Upload or insert images from URL. The. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. You'll be a WO for three-ish years. This means that aviation formations get screwed doubly they have to support everyone's demands, while being vastly outnumbered. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. I'd love to see credit for the photo. U.S. Army UH-60L Black Hawk helicopters from the New Jersey National Guards 1-150th Assault Helicopter Battalion sit on the flight line during sunset at the Army Aviation Support Facility, Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J., Nov. 8, 2018. However, increasing the service obligation of new pilots is the wrong course of action. NO WOFT POSTS. NG will have 10 years. Back To Top In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. This 10 year commitment will definitely dissuade him from the Army. Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. Not difficult for the Army in finding 300 additional NCOs for the WOFT program if need be. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator, according to an all Army activity message published Aug. 12. Army Aviation Leaders should. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. The BRADSO and PADSO portions of CSP remain in effect. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Army's initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. Press J to jump to the feed. He was thinking about turning down an Active Duty UPT slot and fulfilling the alternative 5-year USAFA non-pilot ADSC as an engineer or something, then pursuing a UPT slot with a Guard or Reserve unit. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. And finally, the Army will likely find that it should increase flight pay beyond what has already been offered. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. Expect bonuses to disappear as well. This is the amount of time that an officer must serve on active duty. junglerekon 2 yr. ago The TIG start isn't official yet. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. The U-2 and B-2 are both single-location aircraft, and they go through so much trouble getting their pilots that youd have to try to leave. ROTC Scholars have a 4-year commissioning ADSO. At first, his idea sounded reasonable to me. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. Glad I retired when I did. Such changes may affect my status, If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. Deployed Civil Engineers https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers. I transitioned from infantry to aviation and have had off-and-on heartache with it ever since. Below are the commissioning ADSOs by source of commission: ROTC Non-Scholars have a 3-year commissioning ADSO. It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. Across the force, warrant officer recruiters are actively on the lookout to fill their ranks. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. You make an excellent point..I'm a twice retired CW4 (did a voluntary retiree recall three years after my first twenty). Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. I have done more CTC rotations and in general "useless bs" since being aviation than I ever did infantry. Service commitments are different for Warrant Officers in the Army Reserve and the Army National Guard. The USMA/ROTC graduating cadets will make the decision on the 12 year commitment in 2021. While the goal of the CSA's program was a well intentioned effort to make up for a dearth of aviation experience at senior ranks, it wasn't well received and Congress bit back. That's what the Army was counting on. Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. What a joke. In the last decade, retention has always been a hot-button issue. That's not what I am talking about. Just like privates do certain tasks, junior warrant officers perform certain work as well, and I've personally seen a few folks not being able to deal with that change. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the USAF Academy as we were forced to sign a paper accepting a similar ADSC increase in case of getting an Air Force pilot slot. That seems like a lifetime to an 18 year old. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. Hah oh good catch. Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. Look down many of us are after something a little more challenging than the admin tasks of a 1SG or CSM. I don't know if there are enough Officers getting out that would be willing to revert to WO to solve the pilot shortage, but maybe it would help. There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. But Army aviation is better than sitting behind a desk and possibly dying of boredom. One year dedicated to reset, one to training, one to deployment. A reduction in accessions will turn a long-term solution into a short-term problem. Yes, , and its important to get there as quickly as you can because, . If you graduate after 1 Oct 2020 expect a 10 year service obligation. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. Stan is likely to do plenty of TDYs as an engineer and isnt impervious to the threat of deployment. By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. Well, when you have a system that initially punishes critical thinking, then requires it later on down the line, you're creating your own problem that ends up causing its own problems. Is it only for new guys coming in? Its important to note that Stans theoretical plan might have allowed him to obtain the 750 hours needed for an R-ATP about 7 years after graduating from college, but thats not competitive for getting hired at a major airline. Theres a two word solution to this, age waiver. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. In my next 6 years I flew a total of 50 hoursAnd it's not for lack of trying, I was just in assignments (that I didn't ask for and tried to get out of) where there were no aviation units around. For more information, please see our Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. Sounds great! The impact on warrant officers may be as severe as the impact on would-be aviation lieutenants. Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. I am a former Aviation Officer and when I got out after my ADSO was complete I was surprised that no one questioned why or tried to get me to stay. Pasted as rich text. If you want military aviation to be a part of your life for more than 10 years, possibly even 20+ years, you should pursue any path that will get you there! Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? Your previous content has been restored. Why should you consider doing Company . (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) If the Army rescinds this ADSO and reverts to the original six-year obligation, it will have six years to develop solutions to increase retention. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? , you must start on Active Duty. It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. I'm about to retire from the Air Force as an engineer, O-4, mostly dest and staff job. Press J to jump to the feed. Clear editor. He is the author of thejumo brief, a free weekly newsletter for Army leaders. 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. From this mid-grade officer's perspective this constant obsession with readiness is actually detrimental to readiness. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. Think about approving some ETPs. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. Your flight school ADSO is based on when you graduate WOBC and pin on your flight wings. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? , I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. I was enlisted for 6 before I moved over. Can't be branched aviation. 2-4 more moves for assignments during his Active Duty career. Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) I ended up not joining because they increased the ADSO. I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. People have no time to actually live their lives. These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. If you go to a civilian school and the Army fully or partially funds that course, you will incur 3 times the school time for ADSO if the course is over 60 days.